Why won't VW make a diesel electric-hybrid vehicle? - Golf GTE Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 03-21-2014, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Why won't VW make a diesel electric-hybrid vehicle?

I think that it is a natural question to ask why automakers haven't made a diesel electric-hybrid vehicle yet. With diesels offering great fuel efficiency, and hybrids offering the same, it seems as though a diesel electric-hybrid would be an extra efficient vehicle. Volkswagen in particular has been trying to promote diesel in the US, so it would seem like the perfect company to go forward with the first diesel electric-hybrid vehicle. I think the first thing to consider is what the goals of a hybrid vehicle are.



I'd say that there are three main goals of hybrid vehicles. The first and foremost goal of hybrid vehicles is to increase fuel efficiency. The higher the MPG rating, the better. The second goal would be being environmentally friendly. This would be measured by CO2 emissions. And the final goal of hybrid vehicles would be to reduce the cost of ownership. Now, let's see how a diesel-hybrid would do in reaching these goals.

Right off the bat, let me point out that there is no diesel car in the US market that is the fuel efficiency leader in its class. Gasoline vehicles are more efficient when looking at what is currently available in the market. Such a fact makes the idea of having an uber efficient diesel-hybrid seem like less of a possibility, and more of a pipe dream.

When one looks at how diesels do with CO2 emissions a similar conclusion is reached. Diesel powered vehicles, even with new regulations that have narrowed the gap, still produce more CO2 emissions per mile than gasoline cars. That means that if you take any diesel and compare it to a gasoline counterpart, the gas-powered version will undoubtedly do less harm to the environment.

Then we come to cost of ownership. Many hybrid buyers are looking to spend less on fuel over the course of their vehicle's life. With diesel fuel costing 20% more than gasoline on average, owning a diesel would be more expensive than a petrol powered car. In order for a diesel to save you money it would have to be more fuel efficient than a petrol powered car by a significant margin to make up for the higher price of diesel. On top of that, diesel vehicles offered by car makers are always priced higher than their gasoline powered counterparts, which again adds to cost of ownership.

Benefits to having a diesel hybrid just aren't significant enough to make up for the shortcomings I've discussed above. Added torque isn't that substantial since electric motors provide great torque in gasoline-hybrid vehicles, and the current trend towards turbocharged gasoline engines also offer lots of torque.

The other benefit is better highway fuel economy. This is true, but when stacked up against the other things discussed above it just doesn't do enough to justify the creation of a diesel hybrid.



So that is why VW is coming out with a Golf GTE hybrid, but no Diesel Golf GTE hybrid. Do you see any circumstances that would be prime for a diesel hybrid vehicle?
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post #2 of 13 Old 03-21-2014, 06:12 PM
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jeez a diesel with an electric motor.. would you imagine how much torque that thing has...
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post #3 of 13 Old 03-26-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by calek View Post
jeez a diesel with an electric motor.. would you imagine how much torque that thing has...
I know right.
It's probably one of the best combo's something ideal for the eastern world. Diesel makes both so why not combine the two to place them at the top of the MPG charts.



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post #4 of 13 Old 03-26-2014, 03:50 PM
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burnout king of the world
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post #5 of 13 Old 04-08-2014, 02:01 PM
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Couple of issues here.

The RAM 1500 Ecodiesel is its class leader in fuel economy. So there goes point one...

Second, Diesels are not measured by CO2, but NOx. The Cult of CO2 actually misses several important emissions metrics and ends up doing more harm than good because its focus is erroneous. If Diesels were measured by CO2 straight up against Petrol diesel actually makes less CO2 than Petrol because Diesel has more energy per gallon, thus you need more petrol to travel the same distance as in diesel..

Many Hybrid owners are looking to spend less on fuel may be correct, but cost is not the be all end all, because they are more than happy to pay a $10,000 Premium for a hybrid vehicle that will never pay back its premium in the form of fuel savings. Factor in the emissions equipment required to get a Diesel engine certified and now we're easily looking at a $15K premium.

But the REAL reason a Diesel Hybrid will never be made is because it doesn't fit with the absurd "green" branding of hybrids. Anyone who thinks for half a second can see that hybrids and EVs positioned as environmentally friendly are flat out lying, consider the back ground costs. The issue is that Diesel is seen as dirty and hybrids are seen as clean, their natures actually mean very little to the perception of the buyer, but heads would explode if you tried to sell clean and dirty in the same box...




Last edited by teutonic; 04-08-2014 at 02:08 PM.
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post #6 of 13 Old 04-08-2014, 10:14 PM
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the TDI clean diesels are relatively clean diesels

the only dirty diesels are the ones on the big trucks and rigs.
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-09-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by calek View Post
the TDI clean diesels are relatively clean diesels

the only dirty diesels are the ones on the big trucks and rigs.
Yup! Guys like this:


But it never hurts to have fun like that, watching video's like that kind of make me want a truck.



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post #8 of 13 Old 04-09-2014, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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So the one vehicle that is a diesel class leader is a truck. I don't think that people are really looking for a diesel hybrid truck. I don't even know of any plain old hybrid trucks. I think that the fact that there is only one example of a diesel class leading vehicle simply serves to cement the point.
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-09-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.BIG View Post
So the one vehicle that is a diesel class leader is a truck. I don't think that people are really looking for a diesel hybrid truck. I don't even know of any plain old hybrid trucks. I think that the fact that there is only one example of a diesel class leading vehicle simply serves to cement the point.
well not really, where did you pull your segment data from? American diesels are even more restricted than European diesels. You'll find a diesel engine available in just about every class leading vehicle in Europe.

Double Plus, the diesels that are sold here are sold in segment with Hybrids, EV's and PHEV's, for example the Passat TDI will pull down 40 mpg all day long, yet because it is sold in class with the Camry and Fusion Hybrids 40 mpg is not class leading. The Golf TDI is subcompact segment leader in America with 42 mpg however is not classified as the champion because it is in the same segment as the Spark EV which pulls down 119 mpg (which is odd because it uses NO GALLONS OF ANYTHING). Same with the Jetta TDI in the compact segment which loses out the fully Electric Focus at 105 mpg (same as Spark, WTF NO GALLONS) followed closely in second by the Cruze Diesel...



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post #10 of 13 Old 04-10-2014, 10:43 AM
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maybe all that torque from a hybrid diesel would just snap the driveshafts lol
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